1 1 VILLAGE OF WINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION MEETING 2 3 PUBLIC HEARING RE: ) ) 4 ASIAN FAMILY SERVICES ) 5 6 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS had in the 7 above-entitled cause on the 5th day of September, A.D. 8 2007, at 7:14 p.m. 9 10 PLAN COMMISSION BOARD 11 CLIFF MORTENSON, Chairman; DENNIS CLARK, 12 PETER DOPPER, JAY OLSON, 13 RHONDA PEEBLES, STEVE ROMANELLI, 14 DENEEN THOM, Members. 15 VILLAGE STAFF: 16 CARRI TULLIER, Development Coordinator. 17 PRESENT: 18 KATHY ELLIOTT, Village Attorney; CHRISTINE PETITTI, Village Board Liaison; 19 JOEL KUNESH, Village Board Trustee. 20 REPORTED BY: 21 MS. CATHERINE ARMBRUST RAJCAN, CSR, RDR, CRR, CCP. 22 23 24 EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 2 1 (WHEREUPON, proceedings were had 2 Which are not herein transcribed.) 3 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Public hearing regarding the 4 question for a special use, Asian Family Services, 5 petitioner. 6 Do I have a motion to open the public hearing 7 for the Asian Family Service petitioner? 8 MS. THOM: So moved. 9 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Second? 10 MR. ROMANELLI: Second. 11 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: All in favor? 12 (A Chorus of Ayes.) 13 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Opposed? 14 Okay. Is there anyone here tonight from Asian 15 Family Services that would like to speak? 16 CARRI TULLIER: They just arrived, Cliff. 17 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Okay. Give you a chance to 18 start -- 19 SAGUSH KUMAR: Good evening to all of you; I'm 20 Sagush Kumar, director of the Asian Family Services. 21 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Does she have to be sworn? 22 SAGUSH KUMAR: Absolutely. 23 (WHEREUPON, the witness was duly 24 sworn.) EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 3 1 SAGUSH KUMAR: Yeah. 2 We are an organization for nonprofit. We are 3 helping elderly for 15 years. We started in the 4 building in a very small room. Now we are spreading at 5 four locations. 6 Our main office in Chicago. One is in Niles, 7 who serve up to Lake County; and we have office in 8 Roselle, who serve up to Carol Stream, part of that. 9 And one is in Lombard, we serve this area up to 10 Naperville. 11 And we are providing home care, we are serving 12 1500 people at this moment daily basis for home care. 13 And we have adult daycare also in two places: one in 14 Chicago, one in Niles. And we are serving at this 15 moment 50 people in Chicago and 45 in Niles on daily 16 basis. 17 And we have a meal program in three sites that 18 is in Chicago, Niles and Roselle. We have serving from 19 DuPage County, City of Chicago and several agencies. 20 We are funded by the State of Illinois, and we are 21 funded by City of Chicago, funded by DuPage County; and 22 we are funded by City of Chicago also. And several -- 23 and serving meal program from suburban area -- they are 24 too busy now, they have two -- they have changed the EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 4 1 name now. 2 And we have various other program for our 3 people and our community that include our ESL class, 4 that is English as a second language; we teach computer 5 there, we do help in a legal process, like we do 6 immigration help for them, like we prepare them for 7 citizenship, we prepare them for test. We fill their 8 form and take them to the immigration office and bring 9 them back. 10 Similarly we have a social services; which 11 means we help people to get the public benefit like 12 Medicaid, Medicare and home help who needs housing 13 also. That is why we are having this pressure to have 14 our own housing project. 15 And luckily we saw your place here, which has 16 already built in a group. So we can have all our 17 people here in a group kind of setting so they can 18 have -- the elderly could not have any responsibility 19 for meal preparation or buying the grocery or going for 20 this thing because they do not drive here. 21 So we are trying to give them a further ahead 22 in their life, in their last days of their life. 23 If you permit all of this -- and we have 24 transportation to take them for picnics, for hospitals, EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 5 1 from their appointments, for Public Aid, Public Aid or 2 Medicare or medical. 3 These kinds of things we provide. And we are 4 definitely ethnic food we prepare there, but we are 5 serving east European also. We are serving 400 Bosnian 6 people, Russian some, and some Assyrian in our 7 organizations. 8 And we are trying to have another wing for 9 them, which is a very necessary part for their life, if 10 you all permit or -- whatever is -- 11 CARRI TULLIER: Do you need to put anything on the 12 easel? 13 I saw you brought some -- 14 SAGUSH KUMAR: Easel. This is which I gave before. 15 You can give that. 16 CARRI TULLIER: Okay. 17 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Okay. Is that -- 18 SAGUSH KUMAR: I think that's it. Basically we 19 are trying -- 20 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Okay. What we'll -- you were 21 a little late, so I'll just explain to you. We asked 22 what you were going to do. Now we're going to ask for 23 public comment. 24 SAGUSH KUMAR: Sure. EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 6 1 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: And at that point in time 2 they're going to let us know what they think of the 3 project; if they have any questions, take care of that. 4 SAGUSH KUMAR: Definitely. 5 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Is there anyone here tonight 6 who would like to speak in regards to this subject? 7 Name, address. 8 DINA MC LAUGHLIN: My name is Dina McLaughlin, I 9 live at 27 West 740 Shady Way, Winfield, directly 10 across the street from the proposed Asian home. 11 (WHEREUPON, the witness was duly 12 sworn.) 13 DINA MC LAUGHLIN: I will. 14 We're not -- I'm speaking for myself -- not 15 against having a home across the way from us. However, 16 Marklund home was there prior to Deicke Center, prior 17 to that it was the DuPage County alcoholic center. The 18 home has been there probably in excess of, I'm 19 guessing, about 40 years. We've been there 20. 20 And during that time it's been interesting to 21 watch -- when DuPage was there, they were very 22 cognizant that they were in a residential area. And 23 the home is exactly -- completely surrounded by 24 residential people. In the last few years that has EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 7 1 completely deteriorated. 2 They -- since they went nonsmoking, they'd be 3 outside during the evening, you know, quite a few times 4 disturbing the residents' sleep. Parking was a grave 5 issue the last year or two. It was an honor to be able 6 to park on the street. Daily basis. Which made things 7 very difficult for residents to get in and out if they 8 had a party themselves. 9 Delivery trucks were constantly coming up and 10 down the residential street; and it's not zoned for big 11 trucks, but yet semis were parked across the way 12 loading, unloading. Ambulances, et cetera. 13 So I guess my question is what would be the 14 intent of the facility. 15 If they're having elderly people, you know, 16 elderly people of course need extra services -- and 17 some day we'll all be there ourselves. But we have, 18 you know, physical therapists, we have speech people 19 coming, additional cooks. Where are all those cars 20 going to go? 21 I guess the patients will -- you know, the 22 residents will not be driving, but all the ancillary 23 services will be. 24 So that's a concern. EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 8 1 Will the service be expanded? 2 What services -- I know Asian home -- Universal 3 Asian Homes has a complete list of things. 4 What is the facility going to be? 5 Originally on their onset they said 15, but 6 then at our other meeting at the village it was said 32 7 rooms and possibly 64 residents. 8 So will they be serving meals at lunchtime? 9 We're very concerned about that. 10 So who's going to enforce those codes is a 11 question that I -- I generate. 12 Taxes. It's a non-for-profit organization. 13 The property's been off -- it's over 2 acres. And I'm 14 speaking as a resident. There's so many pieces of 15 property that have been taken off the tax rolls, it 16 really would be nice to have some go back on. 17 Last but not least, right next door is another 18 group home. The Village has an ordinance that two 19 group homes cannot be adjacent to each other within 20 1,000 feet. This definitely would not be in accordance 21 to your own regulations. 22 I think that's all. Thank you. 23 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: What we'll do is, if you can, 24 write the questions down, and we'll have you comment at EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 9 1 the very end. You can answer all the questions that 2 are brought up at the end. Rather than one at a time. 3 SAGUSH KUMAR: Rather than back and forth. That's 4 nice. Thank you. 5 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: That will go better. 6 Yes, ma'am? 7 BARB DANEK: Barb Danek, D-a-n-e-k. 27 W 730 Shady 8 Way in Winfield. 9 (WHEREUPON, the witness was duly 10 sworn.) 11 BARB DANEK: I do. 12 I also have some concerns. I live directly 13 next door to Kevin and Dina, which they live directly 14 across from Marklund. 15 Parking is definitely, you know, an issue. We 16 do realize that there are 30-something beds at 17 Marklund, and we also realize that in the past there 18 have been multitude of problems with the parking over 19 there. 20 It was really funny, last week my husband 21 mentioned it casually to the mailman. The mailman 22 said, oh, no; because he can't even get into the 23 mailbox over there. 24 And so I -- I wanted to -- to share that with EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 10 1 you that even a governmental service is having a 2 difficult time getting in there. 3 I also want to make the comment that I too work 4 for a home that cares for the elderly. And I so 5 appreciate those people who are willing to sacrifice 6 their time and their talents to do that. 7 However, in saying that, I feel that we all 8 need to strive to make sure that their residential 9 facility as well as the facilities and homes around it 10 are also safe. 11 You had mentioned earlier in this application 12 that it was just suitable for elderly community for 13 residents. Which is true. And now I heard you say -- 14 you mentioned Medicare and Medicaid. And I have some 15 concerns that that building does not meet code. 16 I don't believe it meets code as far as fire 17 and safety, and there's -- you know, when you purchase 18 a new building, it -- it has to meet, you know, certain 19 regulations and -- and I know, you know, you share 20 those concerns as well. 21 And I really want to make sure -- I mean, we 22 just had, you know, a tornado touch down not too long 23 ago -- what -- two weeks ago. We're still all 24 recovering from that. EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 11 1 You know, what is your evacuation plan? 2 What are you going to be doing in those 3 instances? 4 Believe me, your property was soaked. It was 5 wet. 6 So if you are receiving funds from Medicare and 7 Medicaid, therefore you would have to be inspected -- 8 okay. Excuse me. They would have to be inspected by 9 Illinois Department of Public Health. And like I said, 10 there are a lot of issues with that. 11 Are you defining this as a group home or -- I 12 don't -- 13 SAGUSH KUMAR: Group home. 14 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: We'll answer all the -- 15 BARB DANEK: Later? 16 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Yes. 17 BARB DANEK: Excuse me. And I guess I did realize 18 that. But it does say group home is really only 9 to 19 15 occupants. So obviously this would exceed that 20 limitation, and I did have a concern about that. 21 Let's see if I had anything else. 22 Oh. The evening after the first board meeting 23 we took a tape measure and measured from New 24 Beginnings, which is right next door to the current EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 12 1 Marklund home; and it's 1100 feet from door to door to 2 Winfield Woods, which is at the top of the hill. So 3 therefore then we'll have three residential homes in 4 a -- in -- within, you know, 1200 square feet. I 5 believe the regulations do say 1,000. 6 And I think that would be about all. 7 So thank you so much. 8 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Just want -- you can stay 9 there, sir. 10 Just want to remind you, when you're speaking 11 tonight, really you're speaking to the board, not to 12 the audience. So you really need to -- you really 13 need -- you can stay where you're at, get up -- you'll 14 have to be sworn in, and -- by the court reporter, but 15 really you're talking to us. 16 We're the ones that want your feedback. I'm 17 sure your neighbors already know how you feel about it. 18 And we'll answer all the questions at one time 19 at the end. Okay. 20 Yes, sir. 21 DARSEY RANDALL: My name is Darsey Randall, I live 22 at 0 S 070 River Lane. That is right in the center 23 of -- 24 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Have to be sworn in. EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 13 1 (WHEREUPON, the witness was duly 2 sworn.) 3 DARSEY RANDALL: I do. 4 My property borders the two undeveloped lands 5 that they have as part of that. It also borders the 6 other house behind, which is for the -- well, they need 7 to be identified. I do -- not quite sure how -- how 8 they raise theirs. 9 But anyway, in the past since I have been 10 here -- I have been here, oh, 36 years, so -- we've had 11 a nursing home, a drug center, present one over there 12 now, and now a new one coming in. 13 I have a few complaints. 14 The staff -- not the people that live there -- 15 the staff considers my property a sidewalk from their 16 place to -- to the corner to River Lane. 17 I object to that. I've objected to the people 18 in there. Because you don't want people walking 19 across, especially when I used to have three dogs. And 20 they barked every time. 21 I no longer have those. 22 But -- and one of my questions is what are they 23 going to do with those two undeveloped pieces of 24 property? EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 14 1 They say they will have 64 people in the -- the 2 group house down there. 3 Well, I've been through that several times. I 4 just don't see how 64 people can really live there. 5 Unless they expand the place. 6 Not comfortably, anyway. 7 And those are the two main things. 8 What are they going to do with the undeveloped 9 property; and please, if they get a staff, let them use 10 the road, the sidewalk or something, not my property. 11 Thank you. 12 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Thank you. 13 Anyone else like to speak tonight on -- regards 14 to this subject? 15 Yes, ma'am? 16 SUSAN SIMONSON: Good evening. My name is Susan, 17 last name is Simonson; I'm at Winfield Woods, which is 18 the nursing facility at the top of the hood. 19 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: You'll have to give an 20 address. 21 SUSAN SIMONSON: 28 W 141 Liberty Street. 22 (WHEREUPON, the witness was duly 23 sworn.) 24 SUSAN SIMONSON: I do. EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 15 1 My question for this evening as a 15-year 2 private property owner of Winfield Woods -- it took me 3 about six years to change the reputation of the 4 facility. We're operating very quietly in the 5 neighborhood, and I'd just like to know if these 6 services come in, if they're going to be providing 7 nursing services. Because it sounds like to me like 8 they're trying to operate a nursing home without a 9 nursing home license. And I'd just like to understand 10 and realize if they're going to be there, they have to 11 have certain rules, regulations they have to follow. 12 They explained again -- I brought up -- someone 13 up front brought up about the Medicaid and Medicare 14 funding. There is a lot of rules and regulations 15 people have to follow. 16 And I myself have seen Marklund -- because I 17 was interested in buying -- when it was for sale, and 18 there's no way that the property could house more than 19 20 people to be proper. 20 And when she said she was going to put 64, that 21 actually is a disgrace to the senior center. Okay? 22 That's my opinion. Thank you. 23 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Thank you. 24 Yes, sir? EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 16 1 RUDY FISINGER: My name is Rudy Fisinger, 27 W 746 2 Beecher Avenue, Winfield. 3 (WHEREUPON, the witness was duly 4 sworn.) 5 RUDY FISINGER: I do. 6 My major complaint with -- even of the existing 7 facilities and the two previous facilities is the 8 lighting. The lighting at night is almost lit up like 9 a Christmas tree. And since it's surrounded by private 10 homes, in the middle of the night, at four o'clock in 11 the morning, these lights are just all over. 12 And while you can get used to it, it is an 13 annoyance. 14 DARSEY RANDALL: I'd like to add one thing. They 15 have a huge spot light that is obviously on a 16 generator, because during the power shortage, it still 17 came on. And -- and that one so happens to shine 18 directly into my bedroom. 19 So I have a lit-up bedroom every night. 20 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: We'll see what we can do about 21 that for you. 22 Anyone else like to speak on this issue 23 tonight? 24 Yes, sir? EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 17 1 ROB CROCKY: Rob Crocky, 27 West 706 Shady Way. 2 (WHEREUPON, the witness was duly 3 sworn.) 4 ROB CROCKY: I do. 5 I have been a resident on Shady Way for about 6 15 years now. One concern I have about the home -- I 7 know that they also deal with -- I believe on the Web 8 site -- I might be wrong -- troubled youth, youth home. 9 What's the chances of it going from a senior 10 citizen to a troubled youth home overnight? 11 I have two young girls that like to play in the 12 street because we don't have sidewalks. I can tell you 13 since Marklund closed down, they have been able to ride 14 their bikes on the street. Before that, the employees 15 that worked there, you couldn't take chances with them. 16 They would come around the corner right there 17 at River Lane and Shady Way; just no regard. 18 Also, that neighborhood has been a subject of 19 flooding issues for many, many years. I think the 20 Village might have an opportunity here to take some of 21 that land, maybe do something with the retention pond, 22 something to maybe ease that problem. 23 I don't know exactly how you do it. I know we 24 work with developers on many new properties around the EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 18 1 Village. That might be a good idea to maybe do 2 something and -- part of the community that's already 3 been around and maybe try to add to it and make it 4 better. 5 Thank you. 6 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Anyone else that would like to 7 speak tonight in regards to this issue? 8 KEVIN MC LAUGHLIN: Kevin McLaughlin; reside at 27 9 West 740 Shady Way, Winfield. 10 (WHEREUPON, the witness was duly 11 sworn.) 12 KEVIN MC LAUGHLIN: I do. 13 Not to reiterate what everybody's already said 14 in reference to the flooding situation that has 15 occurred on the property, most of the property if not 16 all of it is in a flood plain. And to expand -- if 17 their intentions were to acquire the property and then 18 at some point in time in the future -- there's not 19 enough land there to provide the compensatory water 20 storage that would be necessary to retain the water. 21 Going back to when it was, you know, Marklund 22 and then the Deicke Center, it started out differently 23 than what it ended up. Again, it was very -- somewhat 24 compatible with the community. EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 19 1 But then as it got larger, with their buses, 2 they go to paratransit buses, and then their -- the 3 larger buses, it became -- you know, it changed, it 4 evolved into something bigger than what it originally 5 was. 6 That's a concern that I think we all would have 7 in reference to if it were to be approved, you know, 8 what would it evolve into? 9 If that piece of property were vacant today, we 10 wouldn't even be talking about putting that building 11 on. It would be residential property. So plain and 12 simple, that's what it should be. 13 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Is there anyone else tonight 14 that would like to speak in regards to this issue? 15 One more time? 16 Is there anyone else tonight that would like to 17 speak in regards to this issue who hasn't already 18 spoken? 19 Okay. 20 SAGUSH KUMAR: Yes. 21 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Maybe you could answer or 22 reply to some of those questions. 23 SAGUSH KUMAR: Yes. My answer to all of you is 24 that -- my question, rather, when the property has 30 EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 20 1 parking of its own, why parking is such an issue there? 2 I don't understand. The -- the lot has 30 3 parkings. It has two -- one and a half acre also 4 empty. If there's a need, I can make more parking. 5 And our residents do not drive. Maybe van will 6 be there for them to serve them. And the staff, maybe 7 three, four people will be there. 30 parking of their 8 own. 9 BARB DANEK: I guess I just have -- 10 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Okay. 11 SAGUSH KUMAR: If there's a problem, then we can 12 have -- also, there's only one sides resident. Three 13 side is open. 14 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: I think the parking problem 15 exists with -- the question is how many employees are 16 going to be there; are people that are going to be 17 living there going to have their own cars or vehicles? 18 SAGUSH KUMAR: No. As I told you -- 19 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: And in the past the parking 20 problem has existed because of the employees. So there 21 hasn't been -- 22 SAGUSH KUMAR: How many employees they have? 23 Because I have no idea. How many employees the 24 previous people have? EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 21 1 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: I'm sure the -- it's not -- 2 it's not the responsibility of these people to answer 3 that question. 4 SAGUSH KUMAR: I would ask because I don't know. 5 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: It's your responsibility to 6 answer the question how many employees are you planning 7 on having at this facility. How many -- 8 SAGUSH KUMAR: Definitely five, six people will be 9 there to serve them. Because three people for the 10 kitchen to cook, and one person to serve and -- and the 11 manager for everything. And we have adult daycare. So 12 at least six, seven people will be there. 13 And the parking is for 30 people. 14 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Okay. I think the other 15 question was how many patients do you plan on -- 16 SAGUSH KUMAR: They are not patients, sir. They 17 are very -- I will not say very healthy, because some 18 will be 60, some will be 70. So what ever it makes -- 19 that they have, they will have. 20 But they are human beings. We are simply 21 providing a residence where the children do not want 22 them. 23 It's a residence. It's not a nursing home. 24 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Okay. If they're not EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 22 1 patients, what do you refer to the individuals that 2 live there as? 3 SAGUSH KUMAR: Elderly seniors. 4 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: How many elderly seniors to do 5 you plan on having at your facility? 6 SAGUSH KUMAR: At this point I don't know. Because 7 when I saw the property, it was 32 rooms, therefore two 8 people there. I thought it is a level; and whatever 9 the code is allow me. 10 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: I think -- 11 SAGUSH KUMAR: I don't have any fixed number to -- 12 force. 13 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: I think this is part of the 14 problem the people are having is that you're not sure 15 how many people are going to be there, and I'm sure 16 that the people in the area are worried whether it's 15 17 people, or whether it's 64 people. 18 SAGUSH KUMAR: What is the code allow me, or how 19 much I have? 20 I don't have any figure who will ask me -- the 21 people are asking me to have that. 22 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Okay. 23 SAGUSH KUMAR: It is not allowable, definitely I 24 will ask. EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 23 1 MR. OLSON: Can I ask for a clarification? 2 Carri, maybe you can help out here, and Kathy 3 maybe. 4 The request is for a special use and a 5 variance. The special use defined is a group care home 6 with 9 to 15 occupants. 7 It -- are they falling under a special use 8 request group home of 9 to 15 occupants? 9 And that's the limitations that this special 10 use is requesting? 11 And then the variance is that the group home 12 wouldn't be located within 1,000 feet of another group 13 home. 14 Is that the variance request, or is there some 15 type of a variance requesting as for the number of 16 occupants of this facility? 17 CARRI TULLIER: Actually, Kathy, I'm not sure if 18 you can help on that. I do know that one of the 19 variances that we're -- that we're looking at -- and 20 actually, the Zoning Board of Appeals will be having a 21 meeting in regards to being located within 1,000 feet 22 of another group home. 23 MR. OLSON: Yes. 24 CARRI TULLIER: The meeting has not been scheduled EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 24 1 yet for the Zoning Board of Appeals. I'm in the 2 process of putting that together. 3 And I'm not sure, Kathy, whether they would 4 need another variance then to go over the 15 people? 5 ATTORNEY ELLIOTT: They would. 6 CARRI TULLIER: They would. 7 ATTORNEY ELLIOTT: But that would be considered by 8 the Zoning Board. 9 MR. OLSON: So -- all right. 10 ATTORNEY ELLIOTT: The Plan Commission is 11 considering whether or not it's appropriate to use it 12 as a group home. 13 MR. OLSON: All right. 14 ATTORNEY ELLIOTT: If they want additional -- if 15 they want variances, that will be determined by the 16 Zoning Board. 17 MR. OLSON: Okay. 18 CARRI TULLIER: And they need favorable votes from 19 both the Plan Commission and the Zoning Board of 20 Appeals in order to move forward with the group home. 21 MR. OLSON: Well, that's -- that is, you know -- 22 that's not clear to me right now. In -- in this -- you 23 know, in the summary sheet, that there's a variance on 24 the table, you know. And although we don't act on it, EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 25 1 I -- I think that's a significant point. You know. 2 And I would reiterate Cliff's question, you 3 know, to understand a little bit better how many 4 residents you're proposing for the facility. And I 5 would ask that unknowns's not an acceptable answer. 6 So -- 7 PRAMOD KUMAR: Let me -- I'll say that we are 8 not -- Pramod Kumar, P-r-a-m-o-d; last name, Kumar, 9 K-u-m-a-r. 10 (WHEREUPON, the witness was duly 11 sworn.) 12 PRAMOD KUMAR: Yes. Truth and whole truth. 13 See, we are not in a business of elderly home 14 so far. This is the first venture we are trying to get 15 in. 16 And we don't know, firstly, what is designed 17 for, what is the code met. We have to sit with the 18 city code or whatever department is. We don't know at 19 this point how many will be allowed and whether we 20 should proceed with it or not. 21 So it's a matter -- we don't know what -- this 22 facility existed before. So some people did live here 23 before. 24 SAGUSH KUMAR: Right. EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 26 1 PRAMOD KUMAR: How many were allowed before, we 2 should be given that much as the first -- that is what 3 we feel. 4 But if you feel otherwise, still we have to 5 decide whether we -- is the project we can go through 6 or not. 7 So at all -- 8 SAGUSH KUMAR: We are ready to foul the code. 9 That's not a problem. Our purpose is to give a 10 beautiful life for elderly at the end of their life. 11 That is the only thing. And provide the ethnic food, 12 which is change of -- 13 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: I don't think there's any 14 problem with that. I don't think that there's -- 15 SAGUSH KUMAR: And if there's a problem parking, we 16 can put in no parking to only one side. 17 PRAMOD KUMAR: We have two -- and curbs, we can 18 create as much parking, and ten trucks can come and 19 stay there. 20 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Code problems that we -- we're 21 not -- that's not before us tonight. 22 But the -- the question came up about a youth 23 home. 24 SAGUSH KUMAR: There is no youth. EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 27 1 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: There's not. 2 PRAMOD KUMAR: No. Youth is not our area. 3 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Okay. Lighting problems we 4 won't have to deal with. We'll deal with them later. 5 SAGUSH KUMAR: Light, I have not seen it. So if 6 it's a problem, close -- 7 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Staff problems in the past. 8 I'm aware of problems being with staff members being 9 uncontrolled and -- and you say how many people -- how 10 many staff members will be there? 11 SAGUSH KUMAR: Five to seven people. Needed for 12 that kind of facility. 13 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: And the question also came up 14 tonight was what would happen with the two undeveloped 15 properties? 16 Do you have any intentions for expanding, or 17 what would happen with those? 18 PRAMOD KUMAR: Let me expand on that. If these 19 things work out, and there is much more need for our 20 elderlies to come up -- they come up, and where they 21 will go, we try to help locate some places. 22 We can -- if it is economically feasible and 23 workable, we might expand facility if necessary. 24 SAGUSH KUMAR: And we will have a fence around the EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 28 1 thing so they will not walk through your property. 2 Definitely. 3 PRAMOD KUMAR: Whatever is needed, we will pay so 4 that we have -- want to have a nice relation with the 5 neighborhood; and whatever we can do, we'll try to do. 6 CARRI TULLIER: Can I add something real quick? 7 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Yes. 8 CARRI TULLIER: If they do want to expand at some 9 point, they'll have to go before the County if this is 10 located in a special management area, like a flood 11 plain, which I suspect it is. 12 So any expansion would have to be approved by 13 the County; and they're pretty stringent on what they 14 allow in flood plains. 15 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Anybody else on the board that 16 has a question? 17 MS. THOM: With the expanding baby boomer 18 generation I understand the need for elderly daycare. 19 It's becoming greater and greater. 20 The issue -- I can very much see your point. 21 Are there going to be 15 people there around 22 the clock? 23 Or are there going to be 15 people there during 24 the day? EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 29 1 Or are you going to house 64 people and have 2 them stay 24 hours a day? 3 And if they do require nursing services, such 4 as -- which was the nice lady who stood up who said she 5 was working for -- hi -- who said something about if 6 they do need nursing services or additional services, 7 where is the line of demarkation -- okay -- as to what 8 kind of services you're providing for these people if 9 they are staying on site? 10 Because it doesn't look like that building can 11 house 64 people. 12 SAGUSH KUMAR: I don't think so. Simply I saw them 13 there when I went there, 30 room with two -- two bed. 14 That's why I count this number. Because I don't know 15 what code allowed or what is -- 16 MS. THOM: But if I'm your neighbor, that would 17 scare me too. 18 SAGUSH KUMAR: If somebody can provide me the 19 information, how many will live there, what is -- 20 MS. THOM: What are your intentions? 21 Are they to stay overnight, or is this daycare 22 facilities? 23 SAGUSH KUMAR: Residential facility we are making 24 for people who live there. Adult daycare is for only EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 30 1 five, six people who are here in this area. Because we 2 have a program from -- 3 MS. THOM: You're planning on having people live 4 there. 5 SAGUSH KUMAR: That is the facility for. 6 MS. THOM: And since they're elderly, they are 7 going to require medical needs at some time or another. 8 Are you going to have medical staff on duty? 9 SAGUSH KUMAR: Not really. 10 MS. THOM: What is the line of demarkation between 11 being a elder care home and becoming a nursing home? 12 PRAMOD KUMAR: Let me explain. Any elderly or even 13 any age person can have medical situations. You go to 14 hospital, or you consult your doctors, or whatever you 15 do. 16 Here only the family doesn't want these elderly 17 to live with them. And we are providing a place, and 18 nurse will make a round whenever necessary. 19 But they have to consult their own doctor. We 20 will ask them to give the list of their doctors, or 21 whatever. We will call them and inform them. But they 22 are just living as just anybody else. 23 SAGUSH KUMAR: Anybody can live as a house. It's a 24 house. EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 31 1 PRAMOD KUMAR: House. And they cannot cook or they 2 cannot serve themself, so we will provide that. 3 SAGUSH KUMAR: That's why we make a meal for them. 4 PRAMOD KUMAR: Make meal for them. 5 SAGUSH KUMAR: Make their life easy for them. 6 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Dennis, do you have any 7 questions? 8 MR. CLARK: No. 9 Dee? 10 MS. THOM: No. 11 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Dee -- I'm sorry -- did you 12 have any other questions? 13 MS. THOM: No. 14 MR. ROMANELLI: Question for Carri: If we do 15 recommend a special use and there are more than 9 or 15 16 occupants, who would enforce that, or what would happen 17 at that point in the Village standpoint? 18 CARRI TULLIER: That would have to go before the 19 Zoning Board of Appeals. And the Zoning Board of 20 Appeals will have to determine how many people above 21 the 15 will be allowed. 22 I think that is still something that you can 23 consider and maybe put limitations on it. But the 24 Zoning Board of Appeals will make a determine -- make a EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 32 1 determination as to how many -- what the variance will 2 be, whether or not it will be allowed 25 people, or 30 3 people, or whatever they determine to be appropriate. 4 And that would be a code enforcement issue. So 5 the Village will be able to identify how many people 6 are actually living there and on a continuous basis 7 make sure that they have not gone over the amount 8 allowed. 9 MR. ROMANELLI: Just out of curiosity, funded by 10 IDOA? 11 SAGUSH KUMAR: Yes. 12 MS. PEEBLES: Department of Aging. 13 MR. ROMANELLI: Illinois Department of Aging. 14 MS. PEEBLES: You're not old enough. 15 MR. ROMANELLI: That's it for my questions. 16 Mortgage. 17 MR. DOPPER: Okay. Somewhere I got confused. You 18 want it to be -- it's going to be residential. 19 Is there daycare? 20 Maybe I misread going on the Web site. 21 SAGUSH KUMAR: Daycare program for people who are 22 not there. 23 MR. DOPPER: Right. But you'd be bringing people 24 in to spend their day. EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 33 1 SAGUSH KUMAR: They can do activities, like 2 exercise, yoga, and some health seminars for them. So 3 that they can have the day -- something to be done. 4 MR. DOPPER: Okay. Now, how many people are you 5 thinking in terms of daycare? 6 And I'm not going to pin you down to a number, 7 but would you be talking 15, 20, 30 people? 8 SAGUSH KUMAR: Something like that. 15, 20. 9 MR. DOPPER: Okay. And then, how would they be 10 getting there? 11 Would you have a van that would go and pick 12 them up? 13 SAGUSH KUMAR: Yes. We have van and driver who go 14 to home. 15 MR. DOPPER: That's all. 16 MS. PEEBLES: It's a group home, or is it a group 17 home and -- 18 MR. DOPPER: I believe it's a group home and 19 daycare. 20 MS. PEEBLES: And daycare. 21 SAGUSH KUMAR: Right. Yeah. 22 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Any questions? 23 RUDY FISINGER: Could we ask a question here? 24 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: No. Public hearing is closed. EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 34 1 MR. OLSON: Yeah, I think -- let me just make sure 2 with Kathy and Carri here again. 3 If we're -- if we're considering a special use 4 here, when -- when we get into a special use, we're -- 5 the envelope that we can work within is a little bit 6 greater where we got opportunities to look at, you 7 know, site plan issues, number of rooms, hours of 8 operation, meetings, offices, parking, those types of 9 things. Lighting is another area that we have some 10 latitude to define what we think is appropriate for 11 this site and allowing a special use to exist on this 12 site. You know, as proposed by the Asian Family 13 Services. 14 Is that correct? 15 CARRI TULLIER: I believe so; yes. 16 MR. OLSON: Similar to the Roosevelt Road issue 17 that we have; right? 18 ATTORNEY ELLIOTT: Uh-huh. 19 CARRI TULLIER: Right. 20 MR. OLSON: So I guess I have a number of 21 questions, and then -- so -- and you don't need to 22 answer them just yet because I'm going to finish up. 23 You know, I look at your proposal being 24 incomplete tonight because we don't have the EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 35 1 information for us to act on tonight. And it needs to 2 be provided in much greater detail for us to know, you 3 know, for sure what your special use is going to 4 consist of. Because at some point in time the Village 5 is going to have, you know, a special use that's going 6 to end up in an ordinance, right, Kathy? 7 ATTORNEY ELLIOTT: Right. 8 MR. OLSON: That will define the parameters that 9 you're -- your proposal be allowed to operate in. So 10 we need that detail tonight. 11 So I'd like you to consider, you know, things 12 like you've got a facility, you've got -- I've heard 37 13 beds. But there was a little confusion. You're asking 14 for 9 to 15 residents as a special use with no 15 variance, but now we understand that you'd like to be 16 considered for a larger number. 17 I think you need to propose that to us. 18 PRAMOD KUMAR: No, we didn't limit ourself to that 19 number. 20 MR. OLSON: Okay; but -- 21 PRAMOD KUMAR: Ordinance does require -- 22 ATTORNEY ELLIOTT: Code. 23 MR. OLSON: The code right now limits it to that. 24 So my understanding is that in order to increase over EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 36 1 15, you're going to have to go to the Zoning Board of 2 Appeals and actually, you know, get that increased. 3 And to be honest, I don't think it's a -- you 4 know, you should propose what your facility -- how many 5 residents are going to be there, how many daycare folks 6 are going to attend; and it should be very specific. 7 And if there's guidance that the Plan 8 Commission needs to state for you in terms of 9 limitations on those numbers, that will come up during 10 our action and then also the Zoning Board of Appeals; 11 and you'll arrive at what would be potentially an 12 acceptable number for the Village to allow -- 13 SAGUSH KUMAR: Can I ask a question? 14 MR. OLSON: If we even get there. I'm not there 15 yet. You know, but you got things like hours of 16 operation. I would go, meetings -- I'm hearing, you 17 know, you have daycare participants; and maybe there's, 18 you know, 30 or 40 people in meetings. 19 I would like to know the exact detail into 20 total number of employees; are there going to be any 21 corporate level offices here or any higher level 22 managers. 23 I think it was already expressed, you know, 24 number of full-time residents that would live -- live EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 37 1 there on a regular basis. How many would be daycare. 2 I also have the same concerns on fire code, 3 ADA, you know, potential even environmental concerns 4 with the property because of the age. 5 And -- but I also recognize that we have 6 agencies to, you know, govern and take jurisdiction in 7 meeting those things. 8 In other words, we're just the Village; and 9 you're going to have other agencies that are going to 10 be involved in allowing you permits to, you know, run 11 this facility on this site. 12 I would suggest that you need things like a 13 lighting plan, an operational plan. I think you need 14 to make sure that the number of employees is consistent 15 with parking; need to anticipate deliveries: semis, 16 buses, you know, box trucks; whatever those would occur 17 in. 18 Mailboxes. That should be resolved. 19 All these comments that you're hearing this 20 evening need to also be addressed in your plan. You 21 know, so that we've got a detailed proposal from you to 22 render a sound decision on it. 23 So -- 24 SAGUSH KUMAR: See, my -- you want to -- EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 38 1 PRAMOD KUMAR: I think we first need from this 2 Village how many people will be allowed. 3 SAGUSH KUMAR: Allowed. 4 PRAMOD KUMAR: Because how many were -- what plan 5 was allowed? 6 We have no idea. 7 Plus we have not started any plans, because 8 they are based on what will be allowed. 9 And that has to be determined by either some 10 agency here or some code or some rules. 11 SAGUSH KUMAR: And -- 12 ATTORNEY ELLIOTT: You need to hire the 13 professional people to advise you as to what -- to 14 comply with the code. 15 SAGUSH KUMAR: No; we running -- 16 ATTORNEY ELLIOTT: The architect or whoever. 17 MR. OLSON: So right now -- 18 SAGUSH KUMAR: As a daycare concern we are running. 19 There's a rule by IDOA. They come and they measure the 20 space, and they say you can have 40 people per day. 21 And 40 people doesn't come in a day. They come 22 by and by. 23 So if I say I have one person, two person, 24 that's not a -- the people come after the program EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 39 1 comes. 2 MR. OLSON: Right now if your special use is 3 granted by the Village, you're allowed 15. 4 SAGUSH KUMAR: Okay. 5 MR. OLSON: That's the number. 6 SAGUSH KUMAR: 15 to live. 7 MR. OLSON: Well, in a group-home situation. No 8 daycare. None of the other things would be allowed per 9 strict interpretation of code. 10 You -- you've given us enough information this 11 evening that you're proposing, or appear to be 12 proposing -- with no detail, no plans, no professional 13 advice, for us to know exactly what you proposing. 14 SAGUSH KUMAR: We have 15 years we are running a -- 15 PRAMOD KUMAR: Elderly we are very much -- know 16 what has to be done. IDO, City of Chicago -- 17 SAGUSH KUMAR: We know every code. 18 PRAMOD KUMAR: So we -- as far as following 19 regulation, we follow all of them. 20 SAGUSH KUMAR: Health department, code department, 21 building department; everything. 22 PRAMOD KUMAR: Everything. Lighting department. 23 SAGUSH KUMAR: We have four area. 24 PRAMOD KUMAR: We should decide how many people can EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 40 1 live there, this facility existed for 40 years, it 2 should be known to this Village how many people can be 3 allowed. 4 MR. OLSON: You have one new regulatory body that 5 you have to comply with. 6 PRAMOD KUMAR: We will. We will comply with all. 7 But we have to know from Village how many are allowed. 8 If 15 is there, maybe that's not for us. I 9 don't know. 10 I'm just saying you have -- today, 15 number 11 has come today. 12 When I -- at first there was no number given 13 through to us. Now you are saying 15 is the limit. 14 And if it is, then we have to reconsider -- 15 SAGUSH KUMAR: Whether should buy or not. 16 PRAMOD KUMAR: -- paying a million and a half 17 dollars for this building. Will it serve our purpose. 18 If it does or doesn't, I don't know today. 19 MR. OLSON: I'm done. 20 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Rhonda? 21 MS. PEEBLES: I disagree with -- I agree that the 22 proposal is very, very incomplete; and I'm concerned 23 that -- that -- the lack of expertise that you all have 24 for this proposal. EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 41 1 I'm very concerned about that. 2 So we can either make a motion to post -- you 3 know, have another hearing, have them come back with a 4 comprehensive proposal that's consistent with state -- 5 with the laws of the State of Illinois and DuPage 6 County and so on and so forth; or we could just have a 7 motion to -- to not approve the -- 8 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Okay. All right. Tonight 9 you've heard a lot of comments about -- from us, from 10 the audience. We -- we heard a lot of comments from 11 you. 12 But what we're really -- what we're really here 13 tonight to decide is you're asking for a special use 14 request; and a group care home with 9 to 15 occupants 15 is a special use request. 16 So you're asking how many people; what you're 17 asking us to do tonight is okay 9 to 15. 18 PRAMOD KUMAR: Yeah. Understood. 19 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: So you're wanting your number, 20 15 is the most. Okay? 21 SAGUSH KUMAR: Uh-huh. 22 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: The way I see it. Carri, you 23 can correct me if I'm wrong; or Kathy, if I'm wrong, 24 you correct me, please. EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 42 1 ATTORNEY ELLIOTT: You're not wrong. 2 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Okay. Then the other -- the 3 only other thing that we're really having the public 4 hearing on tonight is a group home within a -- a 5 variance for a group home within 1,000 feet of another 6 facility. 7 CARRI TULLIER: Actually -- I'm sorry -- the Zoning 8 Board of Appeals will actually look at the variances 9 that are being requested. 10 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Right. But those are the two 11 things that we're really -- the public hearing is about 12 tonight. 13 CARRI TULLIER: There will be another public 14 hearing for the variances. 15 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Correct. But I mean, what I'm 16 saying is those are the two major things that we're 17 here tonight. We listened to the people; we understand 18 the frustrations and the comments. 19 Now they can go back and do their homework 20 based on what they've heard, based on what we have told 21 them. 22 But what we're really being charged with 23 tonight is a group home care, 9 to 15 occupants for a 24 special use zoning district. EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 43 1 Beyond all that, I agree with the members of 2 the commission and the questions that have been asked: 3 This needs to be a lot more detailed when it comes to 4 us for another public hearing. It's going to have to 5 be a lot more detailed. You're going to have to have 6 specifics; plans; things like that. 7 But whether this should even go for a vote, 8 that's my question. 9 Maybe Kathy or Carri -- 10 ATTORNEY ELLIOTT: Generally you just conduct the 11 public meeting at this meeting. The next meeting you 12 decide whether you want to vote on it or whether -- 13 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Okay. 14 CARRI TULLIER: I can -- I can meet with them as 15 well, and we can -- I can talk to them about some of 16 the things that you had brought up -- 17 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: That's kind of where I'm 18 going. 19 CARRI TULLIER: -- to submit another -- 20 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: That's where I'm kind of going 21 with this is. Maybe now that they're aware of more of 22 what's going to be required and what they're up 23 against, maybe if they could meet with you -- 24 CARRI TULLIER: Yes. EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 44 1 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: -- you could have some 2 dialogue together and iron a lot of this out. But 3 we're not going to be voting on this tonight. 4 MR. OLSON: I think you need to clarify the 5 variances also. 6 CARRI TULLIER: Okay. 7 MR. OLSON: And make sure -- obviously the 8 information that we heard is -- seems to imply that 9 there's a variance in a group home occupant 10 requirement. Which need to be clarified. 11 CARRI TULLIER: Yes. Okay. 12 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: So I guess my -- I know that 13 we're not going to be voting tonight. Do we table this 14 altogether until we get the information, or do we just 15 put it up for a vote for next month? 16 MR. OLSON: Business next month. 17 ATTORNEY ELLIOTT: It will be on -- by your rules 18 it will be on the agenda next month. This is just the 19 public hearing. 20 You can choose, though, at that meeting to 21 continue it or to vote -- vote it up or down. 22 You know, you could ask for a rescheduled 23 public hearing at that time as well. Submit a new 24 request, or modify the request, we want to have another EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 45 1 public hearing. 2 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: That's kind of my question. 3 Thank you. 4 ATTORNEY ELLIOTT: Uh-huh. 5 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Okay. We're -- you'll get 6 together with Carri. 7 CARRI TULLIER: I'll give you a call. 8 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: We'll set this up for next 9 month. 10 SAGUSH KUMAR: Thank you. 11 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: All right. The next item on 12 the agenda -- 13 ATTORNEY ELLIOTT: Cliff, you have to make a motion 14 to close the meeting. 15 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Oh, I'm sorry. Do I have a 16 motion to close the public hearing? 17 MS. PEEBLES: So moved. 18 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Second? 19 ROMANELLI: Second. 20 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: All in favor? 21 (A Chorus of Ayes.) 22 CHAIRMAN MORTENSON: Opposed? 23 Okay. 24 WHICH WERE ALL THE PROCEEDINGS EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 46 1 HAD IN THE FOREGOING 2 CAUSE THIS DATE. 3 (WHEREUPON, the deposition was 4 concluded at 8:03 p.m.) 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com 47 1 STATE OF ILLINOIS ) ) SS: 2 COUNTY OF DU PAGE ) 3 I, CATHERINE A. RAJCAN, a Certified Shorthand 4 Reporter of the State of Illinois, do hereby certify 5 that I reported stenographically by means of machine 6 shorthand the proceedings had at the hearing aforesaid, 7 thereafter reduced to typewriting via computer-aided 8 transcription under my personal direction, and that the 9 foregoing is a true, complete and correct transcript of 10 the proceedings of said hearing as appears from my 11 stenographic notes so taken and transcribed under my 12 personal direction. 13 I further certify that my certificate attached 14 hereto applies to the original transcript and copies 15 thereof, signed and certified under my hand only. I 16 assume no responsibility for the accuracy of any 17 reproduced copies not made under my control or 18 direction. 19 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I do hereunto set my hand 20 at Wheaton, Illinois, this 18th day of September, 2007. 21 22 Certified Shorthand Reporter 23 C.S.R. Certificate No. 084-002503. 24 EFFICIENCY REPORTING 630.682.8887 www.EfficiencyReporting.com